Episode 109 | Expert Property Styling Secrets & Tricks that sell | Amy Stead, Amazema

The aesthetician Amy Stead reveals the tricks of the styling trade to Veronica and Chris
In this treasure trove of an episode, our hosts chat with Amy Stead, CEO and creative director of Sydney-based Amazema, which specialises in styling property for sale, as well as interior design and decoration. Amy lives and breathes all things interior design, which comes through in her own personalised furniture and textiles line, The Amazema Edit. Amy has become an authority in the property styling industry and if you’re actively selling your home, or hoping to soon, this episode could mean money in your pocket.

Amy and our hosts discuss the styling industry from the lens of the real estate market, and the massive value it brings during a property’s sale because appealing interior design can significantly lift your property’s desirability.

Here’s what we covered:

• Why stylists bring real value to selling property.

• How much of the market is being styled for sale?

• Should you have family photos up during an open house?

• Clearance rate differences between ‘good’ stylists and ‘bad’ stylists.

• 'manufactured styled' vs hands-on styled.

• What visual tricks do property stylists use?

• What three things should property buyers look for during an open house?

• What do professional stylists services cost?

• What are the key current styling trends?

• What kinds of property don't need to be styled?

• Tips on how to furnish your new property.

• Where do people go wrong when it comes to flipping and styling?

• The realities of 'flipping houses' and over-capitalising on renovations.

MENTIONED EPISODES:
Episode 12 | John Cunningham
Episode 27 | Overcapitalisng
Episode 97 | Jacqui Pollock

GUEST LINKS:
Instagram: @Amazema_interiors; @the_amazema_edit
Web: Amazema.com
Facebook: Amazema Interiors

GUEST OFFER:
Use code “Elephant” on online purchase for 20% off either:
Interiors Package 1: Initial Consultation  (with recommendations report & mood board) 
or 
Styling For Sale Consultation (in person) — Amazema Interiors (with recommendations report) 

HOST LINKS:
Looking for a Sydney Buyers Agent? www.gooddeeds.com.au
Work with Veronica: info@gooddeeds.com.au 

Looking for a Mortgage Broker? www.wealthful.com.au
Work with Chris: hello@wealthful.com.au

AUCTION READY: HOW TO BUY PROPERTY AT AUCTION EVEN THOUGH YOU'RE SCARED S#!TLESS

By Veronica Morgan

EPISODE TRANSCRIPT: 
Please note that this has been transcribed by half-human-half-robot, so brace yourself for typos and the odd bit of weirdness…
This episode was recorded on 6 February, 2020.

Veronica Morgan: You're listening to the elephant in the room property podcast where the big things that never get talked about actually get talked about. I'm Veronica Morgan real estate agent buyer's agent, cohost of Foxtel's location, location, location Australia and author of a new book called auction ready, how to buy property at auction. Even though you're scared shitless.

Chris Bates: And I'm Chris Bates, financial planner, mortgage broker, and together we're going to uncover who's really making the decisions when you buy a property.

Veronica Morgan: Don't forget that you can access the transcript for this episode on the website as well as download our free food or forecaster report. Which experts can you trust to get it right, theelephantintheroom.com.au.

Chris Bates: Please stick around for this week's elephant rider boot camp and we have a cracking Dumbo, of the week coming up before we get started.

Chris Bates: Everything we talk about on this podcast is generally nature and should never be considered to be personal financial advice. If you're looking to get advice, please seek the help of a licensed financial adviser or buyers agent. They will tailor and document their advice to your personal circumstances. Now let's get cracking.

Veronica Morgan: Have you ever wondered how much property styling adds to the value of a home or on the other hand, how much it adds to the price you pay? Can paint paintings and furniture really make a big difference to the appeal of a property and what are the little tricks that stylists use to make rooms look bigger? Is it possible to create distractions that make a property's faults disappear in a larger sense? Are well designed homes really better to live in and what makes a home well designed anyway? Can on-trend decor make up for a poorly designed home? In this episode we pick the brains of interior designer and property stylist, Amy stead. Amy's background in commercial interior design projects and furniture design provided the foundation for her moving to residential property design and styling around 10 years ago with her own business. Amazema, is that how you say it?

Veronica Morgan: Amazema. Amy's aim is to create spaces people love to live in and to create happiness in their lives. And I tell you, if you sell your property for more money because there's been starred, I'd be pretty happy to. Now to that end, she also designs a personalized furniture and textiles line called amazed by Amy. Amy began her studies at Kofa U South Wales uni, bachelor of design honors where she later went on to become a lecturer in the school of object design. She's also furthered studies in textile design in Copenhagen at the Danish design school and teaching interiors at the Sydney design school. So she's well qualified to talk to us today. Thank you for joining us.

Amy Stead: You're very welcome. Thank you for having me.

Chris Bates: Hi Amy. Good to see you.

Amy Stead: You too too Chris.

Chris Bates: So Amy, thank you for coming in. Also 37 weeks, do the same day as my wife [inaudible] small world coincidences. How I met Amy as well is I'm one of my clients was raving about your services and how did you do it on helping them sell. Their place. So we'll, we'll come out and unpack that sort of selling side but also also helping us with our place. So that's been a very interesting experience. How did you you know, cause obviously got interior design, then you've got property styling. How did you, why did you decide to go down that property styling or rather than just a traditional sort of interior design?

Amy Stead: Um that would be from my family background. So we noticed a gap in the market about 10 years ago that we could see that there was more of a trend towards property styling and I'd left the corporate world and was starting my business and found that there was this niche. Um there's a lot of big companies doing it, like the big sort of national companies, but there wasn't a lot of boutique options and we really felt we wanted to tailor a service to my family company, which was in real estate. So it just felt like a logical progression for us. And because I'd grown up with it, it just felt like this natural process. And I had this inherent knowledge of Brown property and I knew I loved to design people's homes for them to live in, but I also wanted them to help maximize their investment when it came to sell.

Chris Bates: And so that was say 10 years ago, roughly, right?

Amy Stead: Yeah, I started in my spare bedroom.

Chris Bates: Okay. And so nowadays though, like that would have been a bit like industry buyers agents 10 years ago was a completely different industry right and fall. Um that can say they've been in the industry for 10 years, but maybe.

Veronica Morgan: Lot less than there are today.

Chris Bates: Yeah. But I mean you probably starting world as well, like it's now kind of expanded.

Amy Stead: It's huge.

Chris Bates: Do you have any idea of what percentage of sales say in Sydney that are getting styled or,

Amy Stead: I would, it would definitely be around that 60% now we offer a service where we see property that we may not even put hired furniture in, but we go and give a consultation to maximize what they already have. So there isn't that huge outlay, but they're getting professional advice. So when it comes to that type of thing there's some agencies we work with, we see every property that they list, sorry, it's 100% in those circumstances. But across the board I'd say about 60% yeah.

Chris Bates: So it could be, some are just getting rid of the family photos.

Amy Stead: And some of them it's rearranging things and making sure that the space flows beautifully and the cot has gone yup. At the basic. And then other times we're going in and advising on paint colors and small renovations and things like that without hired furniture.

Veronica Morgan: Just on that. Yeah, family photos. It's awesome. At the time I've got my answer, but I'd be keen to know what your answer is.

Amy Stead: Um I, I sort of have a sort of halfway point with it, so it's like maybe don't have it smack bang in your entryway. It's like a big family photo is your only outlet or a wedding photo or something like that. But when it comes to more intimate spaces like in bedrooms and smaller hallways and things like that, I think it's quite a nice personal touch because it shows it's been a loved family space or people that live there have quite a joyous life. To me that brings a lovely energy. But you don't necessarily want the big sort of canvas print on the wall in the lounge room for example, because you still want to have enough neutrality for someone to feel like they can visualize themselves in that home themselves.

Veronica Morgan: Also just bad taste, isn't it? Just having a giant family photo on the, on the wall.

Amy Stead: Beautifully framed, black and white photos down a hallway or something like that. And it still works for the decor and it's integrated into the home and it's, you know, considered way then it's, I feel it's fine.

Chris Bates: So let's say you get a property styling and the real estate agent to most of your work come via people coming to you. As in, I know I need to style it because I'm going to get the best result before I speak to an agent. Or is it most of it coming from agent goes in and says, look, we need to put some money into styling this needs to get a better price. We, how does it, where does most of your work come from?

Amy Stead: Um in the past it was all agents. Um we're finding that we're getting more and more coming organically now. So through referral mainly we also have now started a little retail store where we have straight presence so people can come in and get a feel for what we do and they can talk to our stylists face to face and have a bit more of a personal approach rather than just a website front of like Googling something and not being out it. Cause it's quite a personal process,

Veronica Morgan: Especially when you might be telling them gently that their taste is a bit bad.

Amy Stead: Exactly.

Veronica Morgan: They've been leaving its ugly category from us.

Amy Stead: Um but we found that there is more and more people aware of styling now. So they are actually actively looking for a stylist that fits their, their needs, their tastes, their personality.

Veronica Morgan: So where do you think the awareness is coming from?

Amy Stead: Um I think it's, it's generally in the market now and people are looking you can, I don't want to say, you can tell every property that's styled. It's there is that generic styling out there which is I think sometimes a disservice to the properties. But of course television has made a big impact. The reality of TV shows this course. And that has been around for a while now, but it's just become more and more prevalent that it's just, you don't bring a property to market in any of those circumstances without it being styled. Yeah.

Amy Stead: I mean there's, there's always arguments if not selling the home for example, with empty rooms. Yeah. So I mean I think that's, people go, that's probably sometimes you really know how it all fits in et cetera. But do you think you should also not sell the home with potentially poorly Styled?

Amy Stead: Absolutely. Yeah. I, I, as I said, I can do a disservice to the property if it's not considered. Um cause we always try to look at the era of the building, the demographic of the location, who could possibly be the buyer. And we want to try and create the lifestyle elements that actually make sense to that property and that potential buyer. So it's not just going, Oh, we'll just do a Hamptons look throughout this whole house. Just cause that's what's trendy right now. It's, it's got to be appropriate. Absolutely.

Chris Bates: And so you find, do you find like a lot of styling companies, those say those national ones are trying to, you know, only so much furniture in each location. So we'll just take our truck there and make it all fit in and just hopefully that'll just style it. Lucky it's pretty much the same furniture just getting shifted around. No personalization.

Amy Stead: Absolutely. And often in those circumstances they have a quite different business structure. So you have a sales person coming in to pitch to the client or the vendor. They then come back with a list to a stylist who hasn't seen the property they pick and then an install team installs it. And that's how they actually keep the cost down. It is. And that's how we get under cut. Whereas we have one person from water go. So they see the property, they quote for the property, they pick for the property, they install the property. So yeah, there is that one hand across everything. So you know that you're getting a quality result that is appropriate to that house.

Chris Bates: And if changes need to be made because it was odd, great idea to put the bed that way at first. But now we put it in there, the room looks a bit weird.

Amy Stead: And we have a qualified stylist there to make that decision in the process.

Veronica Morgan: So I guess you could argue then if they're sort of the more the manufactured styled homes and a lot of investment properties get sold that way cause it's, is it is cost if it was cheap, cheaper. And you do see the same old stuff. And it's funny cause I often with clients like, Oh, you know, do you reckon it styled on like there's a couple of clues, no fridge. Yeah, definitely. Yeah, that's always an closing wardrobe. Definitely. but often you've got the same coffee tables, the same artwork, the same furniture, et cetera, et cetera. But I guess that's still better than an empty place.

Amy Stead: Oh, absolutely.

Chris Bates: So you've got obviously the styling, but I've seen a trend as well with the pictures. Like the, actually it's not actually even the property. It's a picture that's created digital styling.

Veronica Morgan: It's virtual styling.

Chris Bates: And then when, if you went to the property, it's actually empty. Are you saying this is actually a cheaper way that sometimes vendors are going this way just to get people into the property.

Amy Stead: Yes, we are seeing it, but it's not really affecting us all that greatly. It's, it's something that I think is possibly more valuable in a rental market because styling for rental is, it doesn't really equate to return. Yeah. So I think in that circumstance are very valuable tool, but when it comes to selling, you have got the emotional connection that is required and the spatial recognition when someone's in the space, they need those items in the room so that they can actually understand how they can utilize that space too.

Amy Stead: Because most people see an empty room and they cannot visualize how things are laid out in there, how things can fit. What the scale actually is. Cause there's no reference point for them.

Veronica Morgan: Yeah. I mean it's because rooms shrink when they're empty too.

Amy Stead: Absolutely they do.

Veronica Morgan: It's amazing that then and so I've got it in my phone. I would keep all the measurements of beds and you know, so if ever we are looking at an empty house and my stride is exactly a meter.

Amy Stead: Oh very handy.

Veronica Morgan: Very handy because most beds are two meters long. Right. So yeah. So I can, I can pace out beds in rooms, which is rather helpful but still not as good as actually having a bed in that room. Absolutely. But what are, what are some of the tricks that a stylist will use? Visual tricks, I guess because let's face it, a lot of properties have got, most probably has got some issue.

Amy Stead: Oh yeah,

Veronica Morgan: Some have got definite issues. But, so what would a stylist do to come in and say, Oh, right, that's going to be difficult to sell? Or do most agents say to you, look, Oh, this one's got really whatever the problem is. And do they sort of highlight it or do you know what yourself,

Amy Stead: The agents that we work closely with and regularly, we have a bit of a dialogue with that before we even see the property. So we understand one what the circumstances with the vendor. So that's a really important thing. And then also if there's any key things that they really want us to pay attention to and highlight with the vendor as well. So some of our agents love to have a mini reno done before because it makes their job a lot easier for sure. Others, we have circumstances where we have a deceased estate, for example, where there isn't any money to do anything like that other than just dress the property.

Amy Stead: So we again, try to look at the property and see what the era is. So if we have it, a deceased estate for example, we try to honor a little bit of that generation of that property. So we might go for a little bit more of a retro look instead of it going really we don't want it to jar with the space, for example. But we go for very neutral colors and make sure that it's light and bright and just really open it up. So often they've got lace curtains and heavy furniture and things like that. So removing all that can just give you the perception of a blank space rather than just all these multilayered yeah. Elements which can distract the buyer.

Chris Bates: Damage limitation I guess. Yeah, I think so we're all quite hypocrites in life. So we, when we're selling something, we would do everything we can to maximize itself though. You're right. So it, if it's a busy road, we put the radio on or if it smells a bit, we put candles in and things like that. What are some of those sorts of things that, let's say you're a buyer now? Most of what we try to with the podcast is help property buyers and put, they're thinking about buying made better decisions also on selling. What are some of the things you think that you should do as a buyer going into properties that are starting to kind of make sure that you're not missing anything? Like, you know, turning off the lights, et cetera?

Amy Stead: Well, one, don't get distracted by the furniture because it can look so pretty that you overlook other things. So it is a case of putting your blinkers on a little bit. You can appreciate the furniture and go, Oh, I'd really love that in my house. Or if I bought this, I'd probably possibly do something like that. That's a really big one because we've had clients in the past that then approach us after they've bought the property and they walk in with their furniture and they go, it's doesn't feel the same. And so then we do the interior design for them, which leads to business for us, which is amazing. But we also understand that that's they got distracted by what we had created, which was the dream. So really focused on the bones of the property rather than what's in it. If you're trying to be savvy.

Amy Stead: Yeah. Because as much as we let our emotions be a part of the buying process you've really got to break down all the other elements too. So it's about where the location is. Is there going to be an return on investment if you actually make improvements to this property.

Veronica Morgan: Because there are some properties or not really? No. I'll give you a return. Do they, I mean, some terraces for instance, that are very skinny on a small block of land and you never get an upstairs bathroom.

Amy Stead: Yep. If you cant add to it,

Veronica Morgan: Spend a lot of money, sort of making another level or whatever. But like in terms of the overall amenity, it's sorta doesn't return. Does it?

Amy Stead: Yeah. That's the thing that I think a lot of people still have this warped perception on that. There is a lot of money to be made in renovating and flicking. Um and that doesn't really exist in every circumstance. So one thing to be mindful of is looking for a property that may be a little bit unloved but has great bones. So we love those ones. And if you can get that in a great area and to be mindful of what the materials are too. So when you're entering a property and going, okay, is the plaster work in good condition? Is the woodwork in good condition? All of that stuff will save you a lot of money because painting doesn't cost a lot and it returns so much.

Veronica Morgan: It does same with floor finishes. It's closer in decent condition. We've just done that, haven't you just closed up your floors?

Amy Stead: Yeah, same with lighting. So they're the three things that I always try to encourage people to look at the, if they're, they're a bit dismal in the property and you can improve them just on the surface, that's going to give you a return on investment.

Veronica Morgan: It's a great tip. And I was thinking of that for the bootcamp earlier. I wasn't always going to give it and now you've just added to, and made it better. So now we're gonna think of another one.

Chris Bates: Now on the styling thing, cause I just, I'm really quite interested in how the styling thing, I feel like that I'm going to up your game a lot like styling because where are we going into property? So I've been looking a lot over the last like six months and just enjoy watching this styling a little bit and I feel like it was a bad experiences.

Veronica Morgan: What are you going to do on your weekends or you're having a baby aren't you? I was about to say what do you do now that you bought.

Chris Bates: I like to torture my self, there's another house up the road I'm going to have a look at, and I'll say we should of bought this one?

Veronica Morgan: That's FOBO you know, fear of a better option.

Chris Bates: But like let's say it's on the dining table there's plates set out and theres a lounge room like always a barbecue set up kind of going next level where it's all about what that property lifestyle is going to create.

Amy Stead: Absolutely.

Chris Bates: Is that kind of, you having to kind of go further and further with your styling now?

Speaker 1: We've been doing that for a long time.

Veronica Morgan: Do you do that?

Amy Stead: We don't do the full dressed dining table cause I feel like it's a little bit, personally I feel it's over the top because none of us really live like that. So we look at more elements that are make it perceived more lived in. So it might be a pair of shoes under a bench at the front door, like stylishly place that all fit with the, the whole space.

Veronica Morgan: Designer shoes.

Amy Stead: Just something like not the reality, we call it optimum like living. So it's like we're not selling like an unrealistic expectation, but it's, it's something that is just that aspired like you or aspire to. So beach towels for example, if you need the beach having like books and things like that actually in the shelves, things that just actually make it feel more homely rather than to, I find that stuff sometimes a little too staged on the bloody and the San Pellegrino and the San Pellegrino bottles in the kitchen? No, no. As far as I'm concerned,

Veronica Morgan: I'm glad to hear that.

Chris Bates: I do agree though with the chamagne with the thing out on the kitchen.

Amy Stead: It's very American as far as I'm concerned. And I don't think it really appeals to the Australian lifestyle.

Chris Bates: The beach towels and more of the kind of sitting out with the paper in the sun.

Amy Stead: Yeah more relaxed elements is what we aim for.

Veronica Morgan: Oh, I saw one, I took photos and stuck it on Facebook some time ago. It was hilarious. It was this crappy old stove in the kitchen and it had this sort of full on cheeseboard and there was grapes draped over the actual cooktop. There was cheese and there was all this stuff. Crack is the whole palava the wine glasses, that bottle of wine, the wine, it was just all over these. I was like, there's a crappy old oven over there and under that and you haven't managed to hide it. In fact,

Amy Stead: You've made it juxtaposition makes it worse hilarious. Anyway, so

Chris Bates: Like a case study, and I'm sure you've probably got these where PR persons come to you, it hasn't sold at auction or they've tried to do a campaign, completely missed the Mark in terms of not being styled right. They've come to you, you've maybe waited six months and then you've restyled it and relisted it. And just seeing how the actual styling impact has made such a huge difference to its sell price.

Amy Stead: Absolutely. there's been circumstances where we've had it can be, it can be the styling and it can be the agent. So it's sometimes the combination, like you can't really pinpoint exactly what it is. Yeah. But sometimes it's just been over baked so it's just, it's too over the top. It's again not appropriate for the building or the demographic. So we find that if we really look at those elements and bring it back to its essence and look at what that buyer for that property, we really try to use our empathy in these circumstances. So I always tell my stylist, you put like you're in the buyer's shoes when you're styling, what do they want? So it has to be appropriate and when it's not, it can really, it's an expensive process to go through and not get a return. So it's, it's something that again, it's, it's, it's price point and expectation from that buyer's perspective, that owner's perspective.

Amy Stead: If they've thought that it's worth a hell of a lot more with, can't do anything about that. But if the agent has actually pre-framed it all correctly and we are doing our job properly, then there shouldn't be any issue with that.

Chris Bates: Return on the investment. In terms of actually paying for it though, like can you give our listeners a bit of an idea of what it actually costs? The rental of furniture actually work. Yeah. And then what happens if it doesn't sell and then you've got to rent your furniture much longer.

Veronica Morgan: Um not, not so much an issue now, but it would have been an issue last year.

Amy Stead: It was an issue last year, 2018 to give you an idea that we we used to have a higher term, which was four weeks minimum with two weeks bonus. We gave at the end just to give that sort of buffer beforehand for marketing and then buffer after possibly auction or period of sale. Um now last year we had to add four weeks, so we went to eight weeks. We've kept that going for now just to give our clients that buffer and then it goes to a weekly higher rate which is the F the four weeks divided by four. So we very seldom go into extensions. Most of the time something has happened because actually expediates the the urgency to actually make a like a sale.

Veronica Morgan: So, so as in let me just read between the lines that you're saying that if the, and or realizes they're gonna lose all their furniture and they've got an offer on the table and they suddenly realize that they probably get lower offers without any furniture in the place, they're more likely to accept that offer because.

Amy Stead: It's at its optimum when it's styled. Yes. So it could just reduce everything and the, the higher rates relative to the scale of the property. Of course. Yeah. So in that is not just because of the amount of furniture going into the amount of time it takes to install. So essentially we're moving a whole house of furniture in, which is a process. So every, every day we're moving two to three properties.

Veronica Morgan: So I'm exhausted thinking about it, honestly, moving house in less than two weeks. And 

Amy Stead: I'd have to deal with all the things inside the cupboards. That's CNA,

Veronica Morgan: Moving all the stuff is much easier than I'm paying people to pack and them pack.

Amy Stead: Completely worth the investment.

Veronica Morgan: It's still stressful even doing that. But yeah, absolutely. But yeah, moving that cause it's physical work cause I'm an August, your stylists aren't literally carrying in the sofas and stuff, but 

Amy Stead: Our removals team does. So we have boys that do that, but our stylists are quite physical too, so they're moving things around and hanging art and all the girls are on the drills and doing everything.

Chris Bates: So let's say say a two bedroom apartment, you know, typical say 80 a hundred squares sort of thing. How much would that cost us saw.

Amy Stead: Depending on scale of outdoor space? Anywhere between sort of two, seven, 2000, 700 to about four grand. So it really depends on the size of the living spaces and the outdoor spaces. Cause that's where a lot of the furniture gets eaten up.

Chris Bates: You get four weeks rental for that and then you might have to pay extra fees for renting it. So 1000 bucks a week or something around that.

Amy Stead: If it extends.

Chris Bates: So it's interesting that the person's willing to sell the property quickly to avoid paying $1,000 a week extra.

Amy Stead: Yeah. We do find that there's a little bit of a a disconnect between the investment of styling and the return on the understanding of return on styling because we find that it's at least 10 times what they'll get on their return. Um and people don't quite understand that because it's a, if an upfront outlay. Yeah. We do have payment plans and things like that now within the industry that are becoming more common. And there's even some companies that are now going down the path of you don't pay unless it is sold, which is getting into dangerous territory because it's really undervaluing our service. And it's, yeah, it's, it's a little, it's getting a little bit, yeah. Catty in that respect.

Veronica Morgan: It's becoming competitive.

Amy Stead: It has become very competitive and because there's a lot of individuals too that don't, that are starting up styling companies that don't have the experience, that don't understand the overheads and the cost.

Veronica Morgan: That sounds like buyers agency.

Amy Stead: And they're getting, they undercutting and people are getting multiple quotes and then getting a service that is sub par.

Veronica Morgan: And not understanding the difference.

Amy Stead: Yeah.

Veronica Morgan: Yeah. And look, I found when I was in selling, obviously when I first started selling, it was like only the really expensive properties got styled. And then even in the six years that I saw, by the end of that, nearly everything that we were having that, that I sold was styled. And I did have a stylist that I favored over. And then that was when sort of, I think living age and Coco Republic started coming in and they're the bigger, you know, the national companies, right, with the furniture companies. And so that changed the landscape a bit. And I know the stylists that I was using used to put those personal touches in and really actually styled the house around the buyer. And that was, it made a massive difference in my view. But I also know she, she gave me a few of her tips and you haven't given us any, and I'm going to push you on this because you know, there's actually a little tricks and one that I've mentioned a number of times in the podcast is that she told me you take the feet off beds, you know, to make the room lot bigger. Um so there's lots of little tricks like that stylist use. Can you share a few for us go on?

Amy Stead: Absolutely. one that comes front of mind is mirrors. We use mirrors a lot to reflect light in a, in an optimum way. Because often we are styling say maybe not the best department. With very low light we'll often put mirrors, more mirrors and you probably would live with in a room. Again, we use lighter color furniture for the same purpose.

Veronica Morgan: Ooh, it's deliberate.

Amy Stead: It is deliberate because it makes the space feel bigger. Most of them are around making the space feel bigger. Yeah. Because unless we have a really light up, brighter, bigger, they're an airy. So we want to have fabrication and textiles and textures that are, have that essence of lightness rather than heavy, dark timbers and letters and things like that.

Veronica Morgan: Why stylists love those bent glass coffee tables.

Amy Stead: Oh yeah. They're the bane of my existence. Do not own any of those.

Veronica Morgan: That's usually the sign. Is it styled?

Amy Stead: My husband had one when he, when I met him and I'm like, that's out deal breaker. Yeah,

Chris Bates: How about those things like on the radio, I have seen that quite a lot where and obviously turning on all the lights,

Veronica Morgan: That's the agent, they'll do that though.

Amy Stead: The agent does that.

Chris Bates: Still part of the Styling, right? Like it's,

Amy Stead: Well, we discouraged the use of artificial light during the day and if they are going to use it, we prefer them to use ambient lighting like lamps because otherwise the overhead lights are just too obvious that they're needed. So we'd much rather use ambient lighting.

Veronica Morgan: Thats a great little trick.

Amy Stead: Because it just gives a warmth to without it being direct.

Veronica Morgan: Yeah. And you can't run around trying to find easy to turn off the overhead lights.

Chris Bates: Yeah. Semi sort of confident a property buyer storming around the yeah. Turning all the lights off Ruby. Oh yeah. Turn your lights on. Opening up the cupboards.

Amy Stead: Slamming things and doing it. Yeah.

Veronica Morgan: Flushing toilets. I've seen people do that.

Amy Stead: I've seen it all. I've worked in open houses as a youth when I was studying. So yeah, I remember it well.

Veronica Morgan: Classic back home. More tricks. You want to know more tricks. So we've had mirrors, we have lamps,

Amy Stead: We use the grainery as well these days. So that just brings that freshness into, particularly if the outlook isn't all that appealing because it just brings that sort of feeling of nature and and freshness in life into them, into the property as well. So you'll notice that is actually a big trend at the moment and one that is there for a purpose. Something else you'll probably notice too is we don't often dress beds in colored bedding. So most of the time the base of it is white. So that's hopping back just to the idea of the cleanliness of a hotel and things like that in the luxury as well as the space and the lightness. And so that's something we often use white as a base and then you layer in color and texture over the top of that. So if you are doing this yourself, it's a like, it's a bit of a great, no-brainer, white towels, white bedding, and then layer in color on top.

Chris Bates: So the elephant in the room is 100% for you.

Veronica Morgan: The reason that Chris and I do this podcast is because we passionately believe that property buyers can do it better. We really want to help all of you understand all the risks, but also the ways in which you can avoid your elephant making the decisions.

Chris Bates: Well, what we would love for you to do is just to share this episode and share other episodes with people around you that are going through the property process.

Veronica Morgan: Give us a review on iTunes. Five-Star, please would be very appreciated because this is about making sure that we all benefit from the wonderful information that our guests have been sharing with us.

Chris Bates: I was writing article the other day, the different trends in style over the last 10 years I think was like a domain article or something and it was like, you know can't remember them all, but it got like Scandi you've got Nordic, you've got like Regal and retro and vintage and it's kind of shifting so fast. How like is it literally every year? Like we are basically going for a different look. And how, how are you dealing with that challenge as a styling company? Because I feel like it's just when you look back on it, you're aware. Actually it has changed.

Amy Stead: It absolutely has. Like when I started we had a lot of bright colors and it was very vibrant and very playful. This, there's a lot of retro elements at play. And we've become more and more neutral over the years and become back to more organic forms and shapes and textures and tones. I think it's also got a little bit to do with the political climate as well, like how we feel in ourselves. Are there trends that people are drawn to? So there's sort of more subdued palate that we're experiencing at the moment, coming back to nature and earthiness, but it's also slightly depressing in my mind. So we look at the psychology of color and things like that too, and we're styling. So what colors are going to affect people in different ways in different spaces? Oh yeah.

Veronica Morgan: Give us some clues on that yet. People talk about red dining rooms for instance, makes people eat more. Yeah.

Amy Stead: But red is quite an aggressive color for someone that is looking to buy. So we try and avoid that or neutralize it if it's a fixture in the house. The more in the area that we style in, which is on the Northern beaches of Sydney, we find that referencing nature is a really powerful tool for us. So we use those ocean tones because they remind people of where they lived and they also have a beautiful calming effect as well. And we believe that you want to have a calm feeling in your home as well. Generally that's pretty much it. We should be considering the chaos of the world. We want to try and like come to sanctuary. So that's kind of a cue that we use for color palette quite a lot of the time.

Amy Stead: And also existing fixtures in the home. We always reference back to when it comes to more the psychology of colors you don't want to have too many jarring contrast in colors, so like on opposite colors on the spectrum as well because that can be a little bit abrasive for the viewer as well. So there's just little tricks around color placement and color combinations that can make a huge difference about making it more soothing.

Chris Bates: So, so I've got a client moment and she got an investment property in Melbourne and it's rented out. She's got a tenant, shes currently trying to kick the the tenant out and I want to sell it because they want to take the proceeds from that to buy a new home. Yes, it's in a reasonably good suburbs, like in a, inner West sort of area. But you know, the challenge they've got here is do they sell it now with a tenant or do they wait and get it styled and hit the market? Do you think that it's really, you know, every property has to be styled and every property should be stalled. How do you decide which ones are perfect for styling and which ones aren't?

Amy Stead: We've created a couple of different offers in our, within our business to accommodate these circumstances. So we've created a, a photo shoot style for tenanted properties where we go in with a layer of items, layer over the tenants, maybe take a piece of art down and put a new piece up, putting, putting new bedding. We have to get the tenants permission. Of course that goes through the agent. But the agent and the vendor have us come in and dress it for photos.

Amy Stead: So it's not completely dissimilar to the virtual styling, but it, the basic stuff is there. They've still got the reference of the scale of the furniture. But it just looks more appealing when you're looking at it online or in the paper. So that's the basic level is.

Veronica Morgan: It does make the agent have to work a little bit harder, doesn't it?

Amy Stead: It does. It's another little little process that they have to deal with, which is part of the process when you're, you're selling a tenanted property anyway because it is slightly more challenging. The other option is to yes, pull everything out and, and style it. We do find that those properties that do that and do even just paint after a tenant has been in, they do get a better ROI. But we also offer a partial style too. So if someone is living in the, in the home and it is their they're actually, they're living in the investment property for a period of time before they buy.

Amy Stead: We can layer over things for that six weeks, six to eight week period, keeping their stuff as a base. And then we add in the elements that just make it more appealing to the buyer.

Chris Bates: And what sort of properties wouldn't you start? Like, if you're listening and you go, well, I'm thinking about selling that property, but, but maybe it's, I'm not going to get bang for buck on the stalling. I imagine it's properties that probably need a bit of work. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Amy Stead: So it's, it's more of those properties that we know are going to be come developments we really see clear off. And we're very honest with people if that's the process. And most of the time the agent has given us an idea on that as well. Sometimes if it's if it is in a really poor state and we know that it's probably going to have to get gutted, then we don't.

Amy Stead: So they're probably the only two. Every other circumstance we can make a difference. So it may not be styling every room that we sell, like the master bedroom, the living room, the dining room, and put a couple of elements in the kitchen and bathroom just so it has a little bit of appeal. But yeah, there isn't really one that I just say blanket, don't bother.

Chris Bates: So when you're going out and buying what are some of the tricks that you would say, cause I know you can just kinda go and look at the shops, et cetera, if you're going to go out, I bought a bit of a buying plan in place. How would you recommend people kind of go about furnishing a new home?

Amy Stead: Oh, okay. So one that they've just purchased has, in your example,

Veronica Morgan: Chris is the Guinea pig here.

Chris Bates: Um really look at the scale of the space too. So same things apply, like making sure you've got great parts of travel around your furniture. So not over overscaled items, just because you've got this new space and going.

Veronica Morgan: Or too small. We haven't even talked about places that are too big.

Amy Stead: Yes, yes. This is another thing too because you can end up like rationally in a space and you can actually can look really skillful. Yeah.

Chris Bates: When you go king living and those right ridiculously stupid big sofa.

Amy Stead: Huge giant. So you sink into it and you're like, Oh, I love this. And then it doesn't work at home. Being yeah, being really considerate of, of scale is my biggest one because it can make or break a space. And that's really making sure that you've got that sort of 800 to a meter around like your major paths of travel because otherwise you end up like squishing pass things in your own house, which is not a nice feeling. And you know that when you've gone to see a property for sale and it hasn't been laid out correctly, that that is disconcerting. Particularly if you're crossing paths with somebody else,

Veronica Morgan: Especially a busy open house at the moment, 60 people going through an open house, it's crowded.

Amy Stead: Yes. another thing, if you've just bought a property and you're wanting to furnish it you, we always suggest that you actually look at what you have first. Um so if there's anything that you can take the measurements of to the open house or when you've got your, a pre-settlement inspection so you can actually see what can be re-used because you'll be surprised. Some things could be put into a completely different context. Say armchair could go into a bedroom that you've now got more space or things like that so that you're not having to start with absolutely nothing. And then also looking at sort of materiality. So is there a theme or like an essence you want to create in this space? So do you want a relaxed, beachy kind of vibe or are you wanting more industrial or, so looking for commonality within the pieces that you pick through the house that there's some common thread or in two or three ways so that you not, not matchy matchy it doesn't all have to be the same timber from the same shop, but there's something that you can hop back to that kind of gives you that visual cue that makes you feel like, ah, that's referencing something else in another room. Or there might be a color that you repeat from an artwork in one room and comes into a rug or something like that. So that gives you that continuity, which is quite soothing again.

Chris Bates: Yeah. So it's not like going through different rooms. They're completely different house each room.

Amy Stead: Yeah. So you haven't got a retro room, a Hampton's room like that. You can mix your styles too. So that's something to not be afraid of because it's, I feel that the trends are becoming more eclectic now because you have got these sort of merging of styles happening rather than being strictly in a box of that particular style.

Veronica Morgan: Cause the problem is that it becomes a bit sanitary, sanitized isn't it? But, but also, I mean, the fact he's a furniture is expensive. It is, unless you go to Ikea, but, but even if you go to a key or, or buy it on Gumtree or whatever, I mean, it's not great quality.

Amy Stead: So sustainability perspective, we can't just be constantly updating it, things like that. So we believe in buying very like your large pieces in a relatively neutral way. So be that in a really great and high quality. So go for amazing timbers, leathers, great linens, things like that. You know that you're going to get at least 10 to 15 years out of, and then you can be a bit more trend focused on your layers. So finishing soft furnishings, accessories, artwork and your textiles.

Chris Bates: So yes, spend, if you're going to spend money, spend it big on the things that are gonna stick around for a while,

Amy Stead: But also make sure you have budget for the law, the layers as well because that's what makes it feel like.

Veronica Morgan: Otherwise you just got this big piece of furniture.

Amy Stead: This amazing leather couch with nothing on it and it will just, it won't make the space feel any better. It's the sometimes the smallest stuff that gives you the bigger impact in how you feel in this space,

Veronica Morgan: Which is back to the whole styling thing. In terms of those little little touches that you put in place before selling a property that made people think, Oh I want to live here. Exactly. What is the first thing that you look for when you walk into a property? What's the first thing that will stand out to you?

Amy Stead: Ah, natural light ceiling Heights. And I look at the bones. Sorry. They're kind of my three.

Veronica Morgan: It's interesting you say about ceiling height cause that's the one thing I often say to clients. You can't see that on a floor plan and you know, and, or even a photo with a wide angle lens it, yeah, there's no way you can tell it's a, it's, and it's amazing the difference it can make. But when you say bones, I know what I know. I know what I think of when I, when you say bones, but tell us more about what that is. '.

Amy Stead: Um so that is like the way the building is constructed. So if you have and the details in the building as far as I'm concerned, so the things that you don't have to replace, you might have to repair. But if the bones are good as in say your architraves and skirting and your flooring things like that are there and they can be maintained over time and they're not having to be replaced. That's the bones. Also the layout of the space too. So if you're not having to make structural changes the, I also include that in the bones. So it's like part of how the house is at the moment, how the apartment is at the moment without having to do those huge outlays of expense.

Chris Bates: Hmm. Do you think that's one of the common mistakes of the flippers? Cause you probably would have said a lot of people, you know, cause you've seen a lot of ah, seen a lot of properties and then a lot of people who have a example bought it, renovated it. And as it's interior designer you'd probably think, what were they thinking sometimes? What were some of the big mistakes you think where they go wrong is that obviously overcapitalizing buying the wrong property and things like that or some of the other things that really you think they really get wrong with flipping?

Amy Stead: I think a lot of people like sketch all over a floor plan and then think, Oh that's easy as well, so Oh I can move this wall, I can do that, can put an extra bathroom here. I can do that without considering the basics of keeping the, building up the full down effect. So things like that. If you are intending to purchase and do a very major renovation, it is worth talking to an engineer or a builder and bringing it through before you buy. If you can, if you've got the luxury of doing so it's a, it's a worthy process because otherwise you can end up in very dangerous territory. And that's where over capitalization can happen very, very easily.

Veronica Morgan: I was talking to somebody recently that they've incorporated a garage into the house. They bought a house to renovate, you know, do a bit of a not so much. Well there's lots of space for parking it. Well yeah, they've made it sort of another living area. But I said, well, is it actually an inhabitable space and you've got the right head is illegal. Have you gotten the right head head?

Amy Stead: Is there ventilation? Is there natural light? All these things,

Veronica Morgan: All that stuff have you actually made any inquiries. Oh no.

Amy Stead: Yeah. And this is a thing too that you'd be surprised as a number of people that will just go and do these renovations without council approval. Adding in an extra bathroom, for example, can often require council approval unless you get one of those very noisy toilets that sort of recycles water and things. So that is a way around plumbing you mean? Yeah. Yeah. So and also where the plumbing is, so if you're wanting to move things around in a bathroom or relocate the kitchen or do things like that, that's a very expensive process.

Amy Stead: Unless you have access to that plumbing that's either underneath or on the side of the building. So if you're on a concrete slab in an apartment block, that's not happening. Yeah. Unless there is major works happening. So things like that, I think people just think, Oh, renovations easy. I've seen it done on television. It only takes X number of days or weeks. And the reality is very, very different.

Chris Bates: A lot you spend a lot more, takes a lot more time and then yeah, you might not get what you think you're going to sell,

Amy Stead: Particularly here in tending to flip quickly, not going anywhere for 10 years. That might be a different case. But if you're intending to move it in 24 months, will be very different,

Veronica Morgan: Well that's it. I mean, most people overestimate their ability and they underestimate the cost and you know, how long it takes and all that sort of stuff. And then, you know, and then they're relying on the market to be favorable to them,

Amy Stead: Which they've got no controller,

Veronica Morgan: No, none at all. And my most I mean look at, you know, Oh, I don't have a crystal ball and I'm in this day in, day out, you know, it's really impossible to pick it. Yeah.

Chris Bates: The flippers who bought in 2015, 16 then, you know, I've got all their plans ready in 17 then bang, the market went down. And then I wanted to try to flip into 2018 there was lots of examples of those properties that got sold in 2018. Yeah. One of my clients was buying, he's an investment sort of guy, loves watching these and tracking them and you go and he sends it to me guys. This one paid 1.7 and they sold it for one six and they spent at least 300 on the Reno.

Chris Bates: That's a 600 grand loss. So I need send it to me. When he was looking at us,

Amy Stead: We had an experience like that where we were bidding on a property. It went well over what we were wanting to buy in 2016 yes. Recently sold last year or less. Yeah, significantly less and they renovated it and we were just like, Oh my goodness. It wasn't actually, it was actually now third preference of tier of suburbs and everything. But we got kind of caught up in it and then went, what are we doing? And even with all my knowledge, my father's knowledge, everything, it was still this moment of like, Oh, thank our lucky stars that we didn't let the emotion take over the moment. The elephant I had the elephant. Yeah. Whereas I had a beautiful experience with my investment property where I bought in 2013 sold in 2016 for almost double. Then I would ask to buy the house that we wanted. So yeah,

Chris Bates: When you add those numbers up on those flips, it gets very scary cause you go 5% for stamp duty, you know, 3% or sell it and then.

Veronica Morgan: You've got your, your consultants fees.

Amy Stead: And possible capital gains if you haven't lived in it.

Chris Bates: So it's never usually as pretty as the M the block makes out with the overcapitalizing thing. Where do you think that you can't really overcapitalize where you should go super quality fifteens or something? Yeah. For where shouldn't you go on spend? You know, money, where, what do you think is just, just get the basic version is no point going is buying that ultra high Lux that you can get a very good one for this price. Yeah. Where should you go and get something that's should be something quite special?

Amy Stead: I think it's more in the, I call it the jewelry of the home. So it's in your, like your, your tap, your lighting and things like that. And your tiles and things that particularly if you're doing a major innovation on a kitchen or bathroom going for the bones as being really high quality of that. So your cabinetry, your tiling, your bench top and so you're tapping your sink and things like that so that that's an area that's worthy of investment. Same with your tiles in your bathroom because to re tile is quite a a process because it involves waterproofing and gutting and yeah, it's a messy process and expensive process and something you don't want to have to do. Tile paint ain't great. I mean it does the trick to sell if we have like something horrendous that we need to cover or you've just moved in and you want to neutralize an awful bathroom for a couple of days about tall paint.

Amy Stead: Yeah, top paint. It has its merits when you're only thinking about using it for about two years. And.

Veronica Morgan: As it can actually compromise the waterproofing can it or the it can penetrate or can allow water to penetrate the tiles. But you've got to grind it down a bit, don't you?

Amy Stead: Just vaguely. He doesn't know if it's a really glossy tile, you need to send it back slightly. So if it's been waterproofed correctly underneath, it should be okay. But if it is an old bathroom that might be compromised. You don't know.

Chris Bates: So it looks great initially. Yeah, it starts to chip away and you can't trust it. So you just want to sell it. And then when you're buying ones with tile paint, yeah, just be aware that's not going to look that nice shiny for long. No. Yeah,

Veronica Morgan: And sometimes it peels,

Amy Stead: It does, it could leak. Yeah. If the surface hasn't been pre prepared properly, so get a professional to do it if you are wanting to live with it for a little while. But yeah, it's not the sort of a DIY project as far as I'm concerned.

Chris Bates: I've said that same thing to us. You said, I said, what about packing these tiles? He goes, no. He says, I can do it. You guys, I'll guarantee everything else we do in the house. Yeah. Guaranteeing it all and.

Amy Stead: If he drops something hard on it at chips. You scuff it with a shoe. Like anything can happen very easily.

Chris Bates: It's funny cause a lot of the renovation sort of experts love the tile paints that and then they spray the flashbacks and the et cetera. But you're right,

Veronica Morgan: It's low cost high impact,

Amy Stead: To be honest to replace a Splashback is actually not a huge cost. So you better off ripping the tiles off cause it's often a small space picking up a really great tile from like, you don't need a lot of square meter often get them on discount and you can often tell that yourself. So that's a DIY that I would say go for tip. And I've done a number of kitchens to flip as well. So re spray the cupboards, resurface the bench top.

Veronica Morgan: Yeah. And that's a really cool thing though. Yeah. You send all your cupboards off to the paint shop.

Amy Stead: Or you can, if it's, if it's a timber cupboard, the painter can do it on site in situ. So you don't having to even deal with that and then replace your hardware on your doors and that can make a whole a kitchen look completely brand new and it's not compromising the quality because you know that there's still good solid, you've put in a decent bench top and it's not like your polishing it. So you don't have as many issues that can occur. But in a bathroom, if the tiles are a good quality, again, just updating your hardware in your tap where replacing the vanity can be a great option as well. Replacing a toilet if it's really old school and shear a bright color or it could just be really odd shape.

Veronica Morgan: Or those lids that drops, you know, this is what my daughter said to me when we moved mom and we're going to have one of those soft lids again, yes we are! She leaves the lids up cause she keeps dropping it. I'm like stop. Can you put the anyway on that overcapitalizing and it's a good thing to talk about because actually at the moment and by the time this goes here, the property that I'm talking about will have sold. So I don't think I'm compromising anything but at least it's in a good area. It's in a great street. It's fundamentally a good house and it's been well designed in terms of its floor plan. It's all renovated and at what's a bit annoying is the level of finish. It's just a bit pedestrian. It's a bit sort of stock standard where the in the area that it's in a really good warranted higher end. But the market is so hot at the minute that, and it's what I said to our clients, you know, unfortunately, I don't think you're going to get a discount if you want to buy this property because it's got those cheaper finishes and it's really annoying. But it is what it is. And we have to sort of confront that. But in a slower market, you know, and I know this in my own renovation, I haven't, I haven't compromised, I haven't gone stupid, but I also have been very careful in my choices.

Veronica Morgan: Partly I'm living in it forever. I'm never moving, but I'm never again, never again. But, but yeah,

Chris Bates: Watch this space.

Amy Stead: I was gonna say anyone in property that says this don't believe them.

Veronica Morgan: I'm not going anywhere believe going anywhere. I'm prepared to put money on this.

Chris Bates: Um but then you said you wanted to live in Potts point in retirement,

Veronica Morgan: But I'm not retiring for the next 20 years. I've got 20 years on my sleeve.

Chris Bates: We've already got a set time.

Veronica Morgan: Well, in my, in my world, 20 years is forever in property. But the thing is that, sorry, I've obviously chosen for my own purposes, but you never know what happens in life. You know, I might get this amazing opportunity to live overseas or something and all of a sudden I'm off and I do sell it.

Chris Bates: I know what you're saying too. Same thing. So in a hot market where there's a lot of desperate buyers around and you know, I've just been, what's tracking what's different properties recently? I know watching some that I'm just saying that the neighbors sold across the road, so I thought, hang on a sec, we weren't thinking about selling, but they got 1.8 across the road, why shouldn't we should put it out in the market? And then the agents also probably knocking on their door to be honest. Oh, they love boxing at least yet. You know, we sold the name. Yes. We know. We sold the cars. All these cars line up wanting to buy yours. Yeah.

Chris Bates: And I feel that for some, these people just getting it on the market, striking while the iron is hot, don't even bother do with the fixing the doors. Don't even bother fixing the gutters and things like that. Just get it on the market and get it solved. He's kind of the best way for them to maximize their price because there's a lot of people desperate in the market. And you mean, do you find that some properties that just, they're not, they spend money on maintenance, they spend money on styling. He's just doesn't really even make a difference cause there's so many people out there,

Amy Stead: It's very seldom that that happens.

Chris Bates: Okay.

Amy Stead: Yeah. So even if someone's missed out on a property that has gone really gangbusters, has been really hot, it's probably because it's been done really well. So then if something is in the same street, it can still be looking lackluster comparatively. So it is still worth doing like the basics at least like doing those little touch-ups and it's amazing what can be turned around in a week. So like, and a lot of agents have their, their trades ready to go and they can wrangle and make stuff happen. It's still worthy doing that because you're going to get grain more competition. It's just essentially what the price comes down to. So, yeah. So we find that we often still go in for a consultation and tell them what to do within that short period of time. If they've only got say five days to go to market so they may not be hiring from us but we go in and give them professional advice of what they can achieve in that amount of time over a weekend or whatever it is, where their best to spend their time or money.

Amy Stead: Yup. So it's still worth not just going to market with the house in shambles and stuff everywhere and beds unmade and all that kind of stuff. There still has to be a level of effort made.

Chris Bates: Funny cause that's some of the ones I've been watching. They they did list really fast and you can say that induce die and you say they didn't do anything. It's just cause one sold next door. Then they listed.

Amy Stead: I mean if there, if there's a buyer that the agent can introduce straight away, totally just go for it without doing anything. But if you are going to go to market and actually market the property and spend money on marketing, you're doing yourself a disservice not to do anything. You have to still make an effort.

Veronica Morgan: And we probably should mention that Amy's dad is John Cunningham telling his real set over and now bilgola and also you've got other ones don't they? But we interviewed John. He's well known in real estate. So cause he was a president at REI new South Wales. He's been running this agent parts, his professionalism, professionalism. I've actually been on the video and everything and to support it and I actually do support it. And we did interview him. I think it was episode one was early days in, so it was very early nine or 10 11 or something like that.

Chris Bates: First parent child, we've had on the podcast,

Veronica Morgan: That is very true.

Amy Stead: And unintentionally to, Chris wasn't aware when he approached me once, John is actually my dad,

Veronica Morgan: Your insights obviously in terms of what happens in the tall, the title, a sales process. That's the reason I mentioned it actually is because, you know, my style is so I haven't been involved in, in the sales environment. If you've grown up in real estate, which you have pretty much literally then you would have different insights into that than most. So we appreciate those insights you've been sharing with us today. Yeah.

Amy Stead: They're not just random observation, hopeful low claims

Chris Bates: Every week we hear incredible stories of the dumb things, property buyers do, dumb things that ended up costing a whole lot of money and, or a whole lot of stress mistakes that can be avoided. Please, Amy, can you give us an example of a property Dumbo, we can all learn what not to do from these stories.

Amy Stead: Yeah, I was, I was kind of referencing that earlier when I mentioned that property that we missed out on. That was a big one for us. But we, we also have been finding that particularly last year that our clients that had bought and had been blindsided by furniture were very disheartened in the process too as a buyer. So something that should have been quite a joyous experience and moving into their new home. And they'd already either not sold her as much as they'd hoped and then bought still slightly higher than they'd hoped can then it end up in a situation where they feel like, why did we do that?

Chris Bates: The grass isn't greener,

Amy Stead: The grass isn't greener.

Veronica Morgan: It's interesting. And so they become clients even though they sort of been disillusioned by the fact they bought a property that you

New Speaker: Styled in the first place. So that can be an interesting client dynamic, but one that still works. But it, it is something that we are noticing is happening more and more when a property is styled. So really interesting isn't it, that that sense of regret perhaps or that they not necessarily feeling like they got what they want.

Amy Stead: They're not buying the full vision so they, it's, I'm falling in love with the wrong things. So it's, you've just got to come back to those essences and put those blinkers on when you walk into a property.

Veronica Morgan: I think they do our blinkers on, I think cause off.

Amy Stead: Well put the blinkers on to the pretty stuff and actually just hone in a focus on the stuff that is what you're buying. You're buying the land size, you're buying the aspect, you're buying the layout, all the things that once you've purchased that, the fundamental,

Veronica Morgan: The Fred, the fabric. I came full disclosure here, I'm on painkillers at the minute because I've broken a bone, sorry, I'm all over the shop. The fragment of the building.

Chris Bates: I didn't actually want to say anything.

Veronica Morgan: I have to because I've stuffed up. So.

Chris Bates: Veronica is actually injured here and she's on painkillers and it's affecting her.

Veronica Morgan: And I don't want you to pity me, but I do want you to understand that that's the reason I.

Chris Bates: And to the listeners I could say you know send Veronica, some flowers.

Veronica Morgan: Yeah do because I need a little bit of TLC.

Chris Bates: It's a very interesting because at the moment I'm getting quite a few clients that wanting to do upgrades and you know, because they probably feel like they should've done last year. Yes. And like, you know, we were on this podcast, we were saying that this is the year to do the upgrade. You know, get a yes you're going to lose on the lefthand but you're going to get a lot on the right hand, which is what you want to buy. And now people are, Oh actually we should've done it last year. We should get in. And they've always fear of missing out and they all want to upgrade extremely fast. And I kind of feel like, I'm like, you know, most brokers would just say, yeah we can go, go buy it. You can go and do it. And I'm like, I think you really need to slow down here and get this right because you can't afford to make this mistake again because you've genuinely, they're doing the upgrade. Cause they made the first mistake they bought some maybe too small or sometimes it's not like sometimes they had apartments and they just that could they or they could afford their stage of life, et cetera.

Chris Bates: But sometimes it is, we rushed to get into the market, we bought something, not thinking we were going to have kids or that it was going to be fine. Now we need more space and they're wanting to enter the market and they just want to go and buy the first thing. And this is what I think your talking to about is that they're not really understanding exactly what they're buying. Is it really the right property for them? And then they go and buy it and they get out the other side and they're like, I.

Amy Stead: Still wasn't right.

Veronica Morgan: Then they think about it.

Chris Bates: Yeah. And that's, that to me is the I think the biggest risk with that is because you, you can't then, you know, are you going to go and say to yourself a year later should we shouldn't have done that upgrade or we want to do it again.

Veronica Morgan: It's so focused on, on, on, you know, pain of not buying something. You know, when we interviewed Jacqui Pollock and that was only in the 97 or somewhere around there you know, we talked about the decision making process and you know, being the funnel she's got this sort of funnel concept and the idea being at the top of the funnel, you've got loads of options, you've got really calm, you're not feeling stressed, you're not feeling pressured. You are able to, you know, really look clearly and calmly at all your options. But you get into that pressure zone, which is what the market's doing to people at the moment. They feel like they've got no options and so then they go panicking and they just, they are not their best selves. Put it that way. And yeah. And so they come to you and it's like, Oh my God, can you.

Amy Stead: Be really clear on what you want to. So if you don't have your wishlist in place and you don't know what it is that you don't love about where you are currently and you haven't analyzed that instead of just going, it doesn't work for us anymore. Yeah. Actually pay attention to what is not working and also what does work and yes, what you like about it so that you can actually try and replicate and remedy those things in the next purchase rather than just repeating the same mistakes or getting new ones.

Chris Bates: Are we going to get another loan this year? Is housing affordability to be a lot of screening? Talk about later this year I reckon because of the price rises and we, you know, we could say that it's going to happen. You know, again, first time buyers had hope they'd been back in the market, hopes going to go and then you're gonna get a lot of out it buying out of areas. So we're getting a lot of clients now thinking, Oh, I'll buy up towards Hornsby and that area because they can't buy the beaches. They'll buy down Cronulla but they've never lived in granola that I know

Amy Stead: They need to research the area first. That's the biggest thing. Like go and spend some weekends up there and actually understand where you're moving to because we have other clients too that then end up isolated and don't have that, that community and that infrastructure that they have been used to if they'd been living in the inner city or in a more of a, a denser area. So yeah, we've, we find that cause we do have a lot of people transitioning to the Northern beaches and upper areas of the Northern suburbs. It's like it's a big change and it's a lot slower paced. Yeah.

Chris Bates: Yup. Yup. Do the leg work cause I think yeah when clients try to buy in St Ives, you ask have you spent much time that no. You know, go rent there. You know. What do we wait for?

Amy Stead: Or very, very beautiful where you are Chris.

Veronica Morgan: All of a sudden Chris is giving everyone a real set of advice. It's so good to hear

Chris Bates: Site. Let's say people are thinking about doing some styling in their own home. What some, some beautiful cause you've helped me with some of these websites that I have some pretty cool stuff.

Veronica Morgan: Why don't we put a little list? So yeah, you want to put together a little cheat sheet for our listeners. Yeah, absolutely. Add that as a bonus.

Amy Stead: I've got a great, a recent, we do styling workshops in our space in our studio in Brookvale and we've got a lovely cheat sheet that gives out like favorite tips with paints and all this sort of stuff as well, and our favorite suppliers and inspiration places to go. So.

Veronica Morgan: If you send us the link for those, we'll include them in the show notes, go to the website or even check out the show notes at the bottom of iTunes for our listeners if you want that.

Chris Bates: Yeah, how am I think there was a, we haven't done this too many episodes. You've got some talk about promo.

Amy Stead: Oh, got a little discount code too. So if you use just the word elephant you can get a discount on a 20% discount on our initial consultation for interior design. So that's if you've just moved into a new property which gives you a lovely report as well as meeting with one of our interior designers, either face to face or online. And a nice mood board to give you that sort of direction. And then it's also the option to use for a consultation for a sale. So a styling consultation as well. So they're purchasable on our website. Amazema.Com Lovely.

Veronica Morgan: Thank you very much.

Chris Bates: Thank you.

Chris Bates: We want to make you a better elephant rider and this week's elephant rider training is

Veronica Morgan: Tell you what, we had so many fantastic tips from Amy in terms of things to look for when you're looking at a property, not just if it's styled, but even if it's not starred. Just one thing I wanted to add too, in fact, she as we do these episodes, by the way, as we do these interviews, I think of things that we can actually talk about in the boot camps. So they really are off the cuff and and you know, related to whatever we've been talking about. And she kept basically stealing my thunder. Every time I write down an idea. It was just like we, she's covered it off, which is great. But the one thing I did want to add a bit of a bit of a insight into is around the timing of sale. When you've got a property that's tenanted, cause we did talk about whether you should get it styled or you know, wait until a tenant vacates and style it or whether you should sell it with a tenant in place, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera.

Veronica Morgan: And you know, in an ideal world, you don't sell a property with a tenant in it. It's, it's 99% of them. They're just not gonna present the property in the way that you want it to be presented. And also they're not going to get the access that you need. And you know, it's an inconvenience to them and it's just at the end of the day it can turn into a nightmare. So all they could move out in the middle of the sale process as well. And that'd be quite disruptive. So, you know, most of the time you wouldn't want to do it. But there's some times when there might be a bit of volatility in the market place where you think, I'm uncertain about what's going to happen in the next three to four months, which is how long it's going to take to get a tenant out in most cases.

Veronica Morgan: You got to give them new South Wales and the, the rules, the laws change different in every state. But in new South Wales for instance, under most circumstances you've got to give them 90 days notice and then once you give them notice they can move out at any time. So trying to time that and work around that, particularly if you're getting trades lined up and all that sort of thing, it can be really quite tricky. It's a very stressful period of time. So you know why people want to avoid it. But if the market is volatile and you, you're not confident that it's going to hold or if it is falling, then you know, there are times where there is very justified to actually sell with a tenant in and, and just just take it to market and just be done with it. So I think it's not just the presentation that you've got to consider there. You know, you've really got to consider what's happening in the, in the greater market.